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Help with ride comfort on S15! Making me slowly hate the car...

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Hi Guys,

 

I have a Nissan Silvia S15 which I purchased a year ago, which came with a host of suspension mods that went past the usual set of coilovers (BC Gold, which I know isnt the best, but reasonable), but also Cusco sway bars F&R, rear camber arms, Front tension rods, tie rods, rear traction rods, rear toe control arms etc...

 

It handles awesome, however after a year as my daily driver, it really is a very very tiresome car to drive, feeling every small undulation, stone and even paint undulations on the road even on a soft setting. Not to mention road noise is deafening. Everything vibrates aswell thru the steering and gearstick (possible cos I have an engine damper aswell), its just a very tiring car to drive as a daily. Im wondering what I can do to soften everything up for street use, yet maintain good/direct/firm handling? For example, my R34 GTR currently runs Nismo S-tune suspension and not much else and is perfect for what im looking for in terms of streetablilty and handling (although wouldnt mind a firmer setup up front)

 

So that leads me to think, perhaps the bushings are what is causing this? Ive heard that the SuperPro bushings are quite a good option? Anyone else have any other ideas? (Will try removing the engine damper for the virbration part)

 

Its a great looking car, with host of great mods, but as it spends 90% on the road rather than track need some compromise...

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what sort of spring rates are on the bcs at the moment, as if there to harsh that can make ure car feel pretty crappy on the road,

removing the engine dampner might remove some of the vibration, yet id be checkign engine and gearbox mounts as well, bushes may well be stuffed, id get them checked however to confirm rather than just getting them changed

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You do realise that superpro bushes are polyurethane and are stiffer than the stock rubber bushes?

They will transfer a little bit more NVH into the cabin so perhaps not what you're looking for.

Your rose jointed suspension arms do the same thing too.

 

Perhaps try hitting up TAARK on here to see if he can source you some stock Nissan bushes for your S15 for a reasonable price.

 

You can also try spraying some noise suppressing "tar" into the wheel wells and underbody and dynamat your interior (doors, boot etc..) to quieten everything down.

 

Lastly, running a larger than standard sway bar can make the car more jittery. It gets worse when coupled with coilovers with stiffer than normal springs. Perhaps get rid of the coilovers (whilst retaining the sways) and get some Bilstein/Koni shocks with springs? It should give you a more compliant ride.

 

Note that these are just my suggestions and if it were me, I'd just live with the harsh ride instead :)

Edited by Omae Aho Ka

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what sort of spring rates are on the bcs at the moment, as if there to harsh that can make ure car feel pretty crappy on the road, removing the engine dampner might remove some of the vibration, yet id be checkign engine and gearbox mounts as well, bushes may well be stuffed, id get them checked however to confirm rather than just getting them changed

 

I think they are 8kg/6kg F & R. Which i dont think its too bad? The Nismo ones the GTR i think are only 1 kg softer than this i think. As for the bushes, I just assumed they would have come with the suspension linkages? or replaced when installed...

 

You do realise that superpro bushes are polyurethane and are stiffer than the stock rubber bushes? They will transfer a little bit more NVH into the cabin so perhaps not what you're looking for. Your rose jointed suspension arms do the same thing too. Perhaps try hitting up TAARK on here to see if he can source you some stock Nissan bushes for your S15 for a reasonable price. You can also try spraying some noise suppressing "tar" into the wheel wells and underbody and dynamat your interior (doors, boot etc..) to quieten everything down. Lastly, running a larger than standard sway bar can make the car more jittery. It gets worse when coupled with coilovers with stiffer than normal springs. Perhaps get rid of the coilovers (whilst retaining the sways) and get some Bilstein/Koni shocks with springs? It should give you a more compliant ride. Note that these are just my suggestions and if it were me, I'd just live with the harsh ride instead :)

 

Yep I do, but heard the SuperPro have some 'mix' or definitely softer than the popular Nolathane ones? Thanks for the replies tho, appreicate it.... I want to retain the coilovers as Im want to eventually go to some form of coilvoers on the GTR, but the way the S15 is riding now, really really puts me off... So want to sort it out first with the S15, and try to get a reasonable firm yet acceptable ride on the coilovers :( would be sooo livable should it behave like the GTR... direct steering feel/response, with right amount of firmness (could even go a tad firmer) but the way the silvia is currently setup is a bit too much... :( something like a european exotic, handles well yet comfortable ride... why cant we get this in our JDMs?! (Not that ive been in any tho LOL)

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A few quick points, the 'soft setting' on coilovers dont make them softer. Have you tried having them adjusted about halfway?

 

What rin and tyre size are you running? Low profile tyres are a great way to improve 'performance' but wont be very comfortable.

 

As mentioned the bushes you have and all the uprated arms will transfer more vibration an shock to the car from the road.

 

And lastly how low is the car?

 

 

-dan

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get rid of the coilovers, put some decent shocks & springs in done, want to increase the handling a tad? put some chunky anti roll bars in.

 

8kg 6kg on a macpherson suspension setup will be rough, on a skyline however it is different as it uses double a arms / double wishbone suspension effectively making the ride more comfy.

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I went through the same with my S14 handled great on smooth surfaces but was bouncy and would skip across bumps. This was 9 and 6 kg/mm springs.

 

I found the best option was to keep the rose jointed arms, solid bushes, links and swaybars but moved to the same struts you have in the GTR, Nismo S-Tune which are around 5.5kg/mm. The car actually has more grip now as it is able to keep the rubber on the road when it gets a bit rough, and is much much more comfortable on the road. Faster around Sandown on street rubber too.

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A few quick points, the 'soft setting' on coilovers dont make them softer. Have you tried having them adjusted about halfway?

 

What rin and tyre size are you running? Low profile tyres are a great way to improve 'performance' but wont be very comfortable.

 

As mentioned the bushes you have and all the uprated arms will transfer more vibration an shock to the car from the road.

 

And lastly how low is the car?

 

 

-dan

 

Not low at all :) running 18x9.5 wide all round with 265/35 all round. So profile isnt too low either.

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=523323

 

get rid of the coilovers, put some decent shocks & springs in done, want to increase the handling a tad? put some chunky anti roll bars in.

 

8kg 6kg on a macpherson suspension setup will be rough, on a skyline however it is different as it uses double a arms / double wishbone suspension effectively making the ride more comfy.

 

Thanks for that, I didnt know that different suspension layout can affect that! I guess its something i might just have to deal with... already have cusco anti roll bars front and rear

 

Run 12 n 10kg isc's in my s15. maybe its time to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

 

hahahaha :lol: yeah you might be right. Although I think the road quailty in NZ, barely 3rd world at that, really dont help. Notice it when driving on this new patch of highway close by, can really notice the difference, i love it... but i guess its THAT much of a difference when compared to my R34 on all road surfaces is why I want something less harsh. Vibrations (like holding a electric drill) comes through the steering and gearknob with revs as well, add that the roaring road noise when going over stone chiped tarmac, every jar etc, its f**king tiring when u just wanting to cruise

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go back to street shocks and cushioned strut tops.. and get a higher profile tyre.. will make a huge difference.. surprised you haven't FKD your rims.. and or watch out for bumps in the road and avoid them.. stop staring at the sheep.. lmao..

Edited by chris2712au

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+1 Get rid of the coilovers and keep the other gear

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35 profile is heaps low! Even going to a 45 on some 17's will make a noticable difference to comfort.

 

 

 

-dan

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Going to a 45 profile tire on 265 17s will be 4cm taller overall and will have a sidewall height higher than the stock 55 profile that nissan released it in. And going 45s on a narrower tyre would result in similar tyre wall height anyway and no point in going smaller as the whole point of going widebody was to fit a wider tyre along with wider track.

 

35 profile is reasonable on a 265 wide tyre. I ran the same profile, tires/mags on my GTR as it came with them, and even with wider 275/35/19s current on the GTR, with very similar sidewall height, with spring rates only 1kg difference, the ride is totally different. Hence why I was wondering about the bushings, engine damper etc.... Im not sure, but will look into if the engine mounts have been changed by previous owner to harder ones as well as the general vibration through the steering and gearstick (with revs) adding to the uncomfortable nature of the car. But as Johnnilicte mentioned above, which i didnt know about, the difference in using double A arms, double wishbone suspension adds to the comfort of the GTR, perhaps i cant do too much other than whats already been mentioned... :(

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Why compare to the gtr? It weighs a couple of hundred kg's more. Weight vs spring rate will be a more accurate comparison.

 

What tyre pressure do you run?

 

 

 

 

-dan

Edited by -LCD-

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Tyres make a massive difference to ride quality and NVH. Try 17's with 40/45 aspect ratio good quality tyres, 34psi all round, coupled with a proper alignment (like proper bridgestones, dunlops etc none of that nangkangtriangleshit) and you'll be laughing. Ps. why the hell do people get traction rods for a street car.... don't get it.

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I've got the same spring rates in my silkroad coilies, camber and toe arms and it rides pretty rough as well. 18' tyre with a 40 profile. Not a whole lot you can do about it though unless you change to springs/shocks combo. A mate has some in his and it is a lot smoother..down side to springs is the fact you can't adjust the height

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Going to a 45 profile tire on 265 17s will be 4cm taller overall and will have a sidewall height higher than the stock 55 profile that nissan released it in.

 

huh ? 215 x .55 = 118 and 265 x .45 = 119.. not quite sure where you are getting a 4cm higher wall height ?

 

http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

 

might help with the maths..

 

that is the perfect replacement for the stock tyre so your speedo isnt out..

Edited by chris2712au

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Woah there is a lot of misinformation in here.

 

Firstly for the road 8 and 6 is too stiff. The car won't really ride well.

 

5/4 or stiffest 6/4 for the road. Both are also pretty good at the track the 6/4 better if going to use r compound tyres.

 

More grip you have, the more spring rate you need to control the chassis but power and the surface also need to be taken into account.

 

Quality of the shocks also makes a massive difference. D2's/g4/ksport are all going to ride much worse regardless of spring rate than a bilstein/monoflex/aragosta setup. I've had 5 different sets of springs in my s15 and I found the normal Koni shock with normal springs rode much worse than a top end set of coilovers. So for street def reckon 5/4 if only street and 6/4 if its going to the track (power dependent).

 

In relation to strut types whether its McPherson strut or double wishbone makes no difference to ride quality but the reason they are different is the 'moment' of the suspension setup. Basically this measures the difference between the wheel travel and shock travel. Ie. if the shock compresses 1mm how far does the wheel move? 1:1 means every 1mm shock moves the wheel moves 1mm. That's not possible though as the shock sits inward of the wheel. So basically the more the shock is towards the centre of the car relative to the wheel the stiffer the spring needs to be to give the same level of 'effective spring rate'. Ie. think of a a pair of plyers... If you squeeze them right up near the nose then you can't really squeeze anything very hard. If you squeeze from the end of the plyers you can squeeze much harder. The further the shock is inwards the more it moves close to the nose of the players and harder the spring rate needed to give the same ride. So skylines etc you can't compare to silvias as the shocks sit much further in on tHe front meaning they runs harder shock for same ride. But if A silva is the same or similar to a skyline it will ride way harder on the front.

 

When you start adding aero ona circuit car you basically start again....

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+1 Get rid of the coilovers and keep the other gear

For all saying the same thing that this guy is, don't listen to him.

Just get better rims and tyres and your car will be a lot more comfortable.

17" with like 235/45-17 KU36s would be the go coz you have a lot more sidewall and these tyres have fairly soft sidewall.

Pro is you'll actually get better grip too.

Don't remove anything else unless your spring rates are more then 8/6kg, (10/8+) in which case, you might want to change it. I wouldn't

However 8/6 is heaps fine for the streets.

The guy above be is weak, I have it stiff and it's fine. The bumpy feeling you get used to, feels proper sporty.

Edited by Suspop

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There is a bit of misleading Info here. But still..

 

My experience -

 

I found that a 18" low profile tyre on aftermarket rim, compared to that of a stock tyre and rime combo makes the car much more comfortable to drive. Im running Zeal Function, 8/6kg swift springs and ARchillies ATR sport tyres. 225/40/18 on an 9.5" wheel. standard arms and bushes also.

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Going to a 45 profile tire on 265 17s will be 4cm taller overall and will have a sidewall height higher than the stock 55 profile that nissan released it in.

 

huh ? 215 x .55 = 118 and 265 x .45 = 119.. not quite sure where you are getting a 4cm higher wall height ?

 

http://www.kouki.co....size-calculator

 

might help with the maths..

 

that is the perfect replacement for the stock tyre so your speedo isnt out..

 

Im sorry mate, you have no idea what you are talking about. I said 4cm taller overall... the tire and rim combo combined. So yes speedo will be out by over 6%. And according to http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp?action=submit there isnt any tire models in that size aswell.

 

Woah there is a lot of misinformation in here.

 

Firstly for the road 8 and 6 is too stiff. The car won't really ride well.

 

5/4 or stiffest 6/4 for the road. Both are also pretty good at the track the 6/4 better if going to use r compound tyres.

 

More grip you have, the more spring rate you need to control the chassis but power and the surface also need to be taken into account.

 

Quality of the shocks also makes a massive difference. D2's/g4/ksport are all going to ride much worse regardless of spring rate than a bilstein/monoflex/aragosta setup. I've had 5 different sets of springs in my s15 and I found the normal Koni shock with normal springs rode much worse than a top end set of coilovers. So for street def reckon 5/4 if only street and 6/4 if its going to the track (power dependent).

 

In relation to strut types whether its McPherson strut or double wishbone makes no difference to ride quality but the reason they are different is the 'moment' of the suspension setup. Basically this measures the difference between the wheel travel and shock travel. Ie. if the shock compresses 1mm how far does the wheel move? 1:1 means every 1mm shock moves the wheel moves 1mm. That's not possible though as the shock sits inward of the wheel. So basically the more the shock is towards the centre of the car relative to the wheel the stiffer the spring needs to be to give the same level of 'effective spring rate'. Ie. think of a a pair of plyers... If you squeeze them right up near the nose then you can't really squeeze anything very hard. If you squeeze from the end of the plyers you can squeeze much harder. The further the shock is inwards the more it moves close to the nose of the players and harder the spring rate needed to give the same ride. So skylines etc you can't compare to silvias as the shocks sit much further in on tHe front meaning they runs harder shock for same ride. But if A silva is the same or similar to a skyline it will ride way harder on the front.

 

When you start adding aero ona circuit car you basically start again....

 

Thanks for the great info, this was the type of explanation I was more after. Great info. I guess with the widebody and comfortably fitting 265s all round there is more overall grip so the spring rates might be suitable? (For the ride comfort looks to be the spring rates that ultimately need to be looked at and the entry/mid level nature of BC coilovers, i cant get away from the ride) But also alot of Best Motoring Vids, when the guys run through the Touge (purpose of which is to test on real road conditions with various bumps and undulations) still run very high spring rates, even on street tires (not even semi slick) im sure most of you have seen as its quite old this segment i think, check out the S15s, S14s run here and the various spring rates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_VJ2hpMS0

 

But for our NZ roads, i think ill just have to deal with it, as will be hitting the track in Nov...

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It is about 3cm and then the profile of different brands vary in profile.. I really should not brush over posts..

 

what you could do is go a bit softer on on the springs and go a little harder on the sway bars.. however stiff swaybars tend to bump steer a bit.. but it will stop the roll effect of the soft shocks.. most people I know that want to keep there sanity on roads do this.. as have I.. with a relatively decent profile tyre F235/40 and R265/35 r18..

 

Of course a good set of coil overs are the will out perform konis.. they are not a high end shock like a bilstein.. etc.. but still are working well for what you pay..

 

Then there is the setup.. valving, dampener adjustability, sprung and unsprung weights, ride height.. some times raising the car softens the ride..

 

light weight rims will help, as will a lighter car if it is in your control to do these mods.. as it relieves the effort on the suspension..

 

If it was me I would just get a set of street rims with larger profile tyres.. it wont get you street cred.. but you have to face it as a decision.. potholes or track.. if you gear it for shitty roads I believe you will be disappointed at the track.. It is so easy to exchange rims then to screw around with suspension setup.. or skinnier rims with a more aggressive offset meaning a narrower tyre with a higher profile for a given rolling diameter

 

then there is ultra serious... the amount of people that piss around with suspension setups thinking they know what they are doing.. you cant just adjust by feel on the street..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li3jPWmd3K0 a 7 post suspension chassis dyno...

Edited by chris2712au

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I've had BC's for a couple of months now, daily driver. Not top of the line but i wish i paid an extra couple of hundred for Bilstein. Did 1 track day aswell, perfect to me

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